tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post716950009763577968..comments2023-10-31T15:14:05.373+00:00Comments on Hagley Road To Ladywood: 2010 Election special: Plaid CymruUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-57040683769544152292010-03-30T12:54:01.185+01:002010-03-30T12:54:01.185+01:00"I don't see that nationalism or 'loc..."I don't see that nationalism or 'localism' is automatically reactionary, and I believe that any attempt to create a more democratic system is going to need to devolve more powers and be based around smaller, more responsive political units."<br /><br />Quite right Ceri. Anti-imperialism and anti-colonialism is in fact far more likely to be progressive than reactionary.Welsh Ramblingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17585109264200933570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-23372033114038925172010-03-30T12:52:34.144+01:002010-03-30T12:52:34.144+01:00"Welsh and Scottish nationalism are another f..."Welsh and Scottish nationalism are another frankenstein of the British left. Created by Tony Blair in the 1990s they were his devious way of securing power north and west of the border at the expense of the British nation without any consideration for what is clearly a pro-Union majority."<br /><br />Plaid got their first MP way back in 1966!Welsh Ramblingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17585109264200933570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-25381958710299013812010-03-30T12:52:34.143+01:002010-03-30T12:52:34.143+01:00Socialist Sam, I am happy to say you're mistak...Socialist Sam, I am happy to say you're mistaken on alot of fronts!<br /><br />"You think it's a social democratic vote, but only in theory. <br /><br />Ask yourself this simple question: who's currently in government in Wales?<br /><br />The answer is: A coalition Labour-Plaid Cymru. Without nationalist support, Labour in Wales would be gasping for oxygen. "<br /><br />Sam, Plaid IS in government as you state, and IS social democratic in practice. As is Welsh Labour. The alliance between Plaid and Labour was predicated on Welsh Labour rejecting privatisation and rejecting New Labour. Thus, Plaid in government has cemented the gains of the left in keeping the Welsh NHS in public hands (as just one example).<br /><br />"Remember the 2001 campaign against 'English immigrants' in Wales and the rising property prices due to 2nd homes?<br /><br />WHhat was a fundamental class issue was then automatically hijacked the moment ethnicity was brought into it: the English vs the Welsh; Them vs Us."<br /><br />You're wrong, because Plaid in fact has some support from English migrants, and approaches that issue on a class/socio-economic basis rather than a ethnic one. Thus, the English migrant left-wing author Mike Parker is a particularly high-profile supporter of Plaid in rural Wales. <br /><br />"It is on those bases that I take the progressive credentials of Welsh nationalism with a pinch of salt."<br /><br />Modern Welsh nationalism has been progressive since the 60s, they were against the war in Vietnam, against Stalinism, for trade unions, backed the miners strike, backed civil rights and anti-colonialism and have always opposed nuclear weapons.Welsh Ramblingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17585109264200933570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-71228162736408410142010-03-24T23:54:22.664+00:002010-03-24T23:54:22.664+00:00SocialistSam,
Plaid Cymru has been avowedly social...SocialistSam,<br />Plaid Cymru has been avowedly social democratic for 3 decades, in the face of a general rightward shift in politics, and the fact that it is willing to get its hands dirty in coalition with Labour is nothing to be ashamed off- given its limited powers, the Welsh Assembly govt has tried to move left, or at least put a handbrake on any rightward shift.<br /><br />As for 2nd homes, in Wales the issue of identity and ethnicity is as fundamental to this as class- the reason for the prominence of this issue in Wales is less the protection of traditional communities as such, more their position as Welsh speaking communities, and the survival of Welsh as a living language. In this respect, the 'single-issue' of nationalism has proved more durable (and more secure a source of electoral support for 'fringe' parties) than class.<br /><br />I don't see that nationalism or 'localism' is automatically reactionary, and I believe that any attempt to create a more democratic system is going to need to devolve more powers and be based around smaller, more responsive political units.<br /><br />welshramblings- spot on, and one of the greatest disappointments around the EU has to be the failure of its potential as a way of devolving power, and its increasing emphasis on neo-liberal economicsCerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14948072521812559027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-42081333618513272472010-03-24T21:20:20.767+00:002010-03-24T21:20:20.767+00:00But that's because 'patriot' is hilari...But that's because 'patriot' is hilarious, Daniel. Even better than Newmania. The last comment he left here is just quality stuff.<br /><br />And note his squint-eyed reference to "British nation". I hear there are job vacancies at the BNP.claudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11498799178450479883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-83800089810880296712010-03-24T19:41:52.586+00:002010-03-24T19:41:52.586+00:00Claude! You let patriot's small-minded bullshi...Claude! You let patriot's small-minded bullshit through again!<br /><br />You'd think he'd quit it wouldn't you?<br /><br />You're a fool, as if Scottish and Welsh nationalism did not exist before New Labour, you monstrous tit. Fuck me, someone put this awful human out of their misery!<br /><br />Read some books please! Educate yourself, stop making horrendous gaffs.Daniel Hoffmann-Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02531802987223516482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-56850606273487543092010-03-24T19:17:22.268+00:002010-03-24T19:17:22.268+00:00Welsh and Scottish nationalism are another franken...Welsh and Scottish nationalism are another frankenstein of the British left. Created by Tony Blair in the 1990s they were his devious way of securing power north and west of the border at the expense of the British nation without any consideration for what is clearly a pro-Union majority.the patriothttp://www.avfc.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-47379978564919742202010-03-24T14:50:07.402+00:002010-03-24T14:50:07.402+00:00You think it's a social democratic vote, but o...You think it's a social democratic vote, but only in theory. <br /><br />Ask yourself this simple question: who's currently in government in Wales?<br /><br />The answer is: A coalition Labour-Plaid Cymru. Without nationalist support, Labour in Wales would be gasping for oxygen. <br /><br />There's also a second and more fundamental aspect. In principle I'm not a Unionist and have nothing against an independent Scotland or Wales.<br /><br />The problem though is that when parochialism and excessive localism become the central tenets of a political creed, the position becomes inevitably a reactionary one, no matter how many papers about environmentalism or social justice are published in an attempt to snatch the progressive vote from under Labour's nose.<br /><br />Remember the 2001 campaign against 'English immigrants' in Wales and the rising property prices due to 2nd homes?<br /><br />WHhat was a fundamental class issue was then automatically hijacked the moment ethnicity was brought into it: the English vs the Welsh; Them vs Us.<br /><br />It is on those bases that I take the progressive credentials of Welsh nationalism with a pinch of salt.socialist samhttp://www.socialistparty.org.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-5563996354182421742010-03-24T11:47:26.984+00:002010-03-24T11:47:26.984+00:00Great blog post and always nice to see a different...Great blog post and always nice to see a different perspective.<br /><br />In response to socialist sam, Plaid isn't a single issue platform. It is not a far-left party or a revolutionary one, but is essentially a reformist, social-democratic coalition of Welsh national interests. <br /><br />Their support did collapse after 1999 but from 2005 onwards has been steadily increasing.<br /><br />They do not support neo-liberal policies at the EU but stand for a social Europe. They voted against the postal services directive (privatisation) in Europe, meaning for example they can campaign against post office closures with a clean conscience. The evidence from the voting record at the Euro Parliament suggests Plaid are in fact one of the few voices in that Parliament that opposes neo-liberalism.Welsh Ramblingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17585109264200933570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-23269517342401507422010-03-24T10:45:01.862+00:002010-03-24T10:45:01.862+00:00sam,
what in the holy name of crap are you blabber...sam,<br />what in the holy name of crap are you blabbering on about?<br /><br />You speak in slogans, an old vice of the far-left, in my book, and you're the epitome of that. <br />Aside from an incredibly vague "support neo-liberal EU policies" you haven't supported your opinion with <i>anything</i>.<br /><br />Not to mention that it's simply false that Plaid Cymru's support has "collapsed". Last time I checked they actually increased their number of AMs.claudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11498799178450479883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-59953832644569509312010-03-24T10:33:28.307+00:002010-03-24T10:33:28.307+00:00I'm of Welsh ancestry and I have some sympathy...I'm of Welsh ancestry and I have some sympathy for Plaid. However, I don't trust their policies. Many ex-Labour supporters have convinced themselves that Plaid is a party of the left. It isn't. It's another single issue platform, which is why I don't trust it. Their support of neo-liberal EU policies give sthe game away. No wonder their support has collapsed since 1999.socialist samhttp://www.socialistparty.org.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-21199792191566181472010-03-24T10:27:08.613+00:002010-03-24T10:27:08.613+00:00If I was Welsh, I'd vote for them but I'm ...If I was Welsh, I'd vote for them but I'm not...Daniel Hoffmann-Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02531802987223516482noreply@blogger.com