tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post8467875228285055053..comments2023-10-31T15:14:05.373+00:00Comments on Hagley Road To Ladywood: 2010 Election special: the BNP*Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-76939532432420352702010-03-25T09:33:12.211+00:002010-03-25T09:33:12.211+00:00I rather agree with that Claude. Since you mention...I rather agree with that Claude. Since you mention the Lib Dems I recall that the BNP in France are about ths same size which gives you an idea of their place in French National life.<br />Of the red herrings you fling up to confuse the extent of immigration here the only places really comparable are France and Holland both of whom are showng far more signs of political strain .<br />This is not then ,as the comments here imply,a place full of racism and intolerance least of all (actually) in the white working class and it is quite quite wrong to lump ordinary concerns about unwanted and overly rapid change with historic acts of genocide or wierd eugenic theories.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-76636443897447823532010-03-25T09:20:51.955+00:002010-03-25T09:20:51.955+00:00Excellent article by Jim Jepps yesterday about the...Excellent <a href="http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/88343" rel="nofollow">article by Jim Jepps</a> yesterday about the importance of NOT talking up the BNP.<br /><br />Extract:<br />"If we make people feel that a vote for the BNP will count, then we will be helping the far-right even as we feel virtuous that we're opposing it.<br /><br />Let's think about every Liberal Democrat leaflet in the country at the moment. No matter what the Lib Dems' chances are in an area they will be telling voters that only they can win in the local area.<br /><br />What they would not give for someone independent to go round shouting: "No-one must vote Lib Dem because they might get in, and then everything would change!"<br /><br />So why should we do this for the BNP? The irony is that if we go out in force in places like Lewisham telling people the BNP is standing, we'll be doing more work in the area than it will.<br /><br />The fact is that in most places where the BNP is standing, the election is not about the party. We'll only be playing into its hands if we imply that it is. "claudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11498799178450479883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-71104579154122968102010-03-24T19:28:39.583+00:002010-03-24T19:28:39.583+00:00You did not although Daniel did and you appeared t...You did not although Daniel did and you appeared to endorse his comments. Still water under the bridge I suppose and by being over sensitive to a non issue I appear as prissy as he.<br /><br />It appears we share an equal dislike for the BNP. Fair enough as they are racist and although I did not agree with the way the BBC treated Griffin on question time. He did show his foolishness over issues such as the holocaust.<br /><br />I still adhere to the view that the policies of the left have created a vacuum exploited by the BNP. By left I mean particularly New Labour. They have been the arbiters of positive discrimination measures. Introduced legislation that now makes it illegal to criticise religions (the 2006 Act does not specify but it is intended to protect Islam). They also sold a substantial chunk of UK Sovereignty lock, stock and barrel to Brussels with the Lisbon treaty. <br /><br />Of course the Tories with regards to the EU are at least as bad. John Major signed the Maastricht treaty that formally gave EU law precedence over UK law. They also oversaw an enormous increase in mass immigration. Far more than was necessary and even some members of their own party have criticised them for that. Claude has commented elsewhere that more immigrants went to other EU countries. I readily accept that. But it does not mean that local services in South East England and other cities are not overwhelmed.<br /><br />You seem to be keen on peddling the line that BNP support stems from a right wing and xenophobic media. Certainly the Daily Mail and its ilk does not help. I do not believe however it is the root cause of the problem. On a separate note and one I intend to blog separately is that New Labour oversaw an enormous erosion of liberties. I cannot perceive of any method of correcting that other than a written constitution perhaps along the US model. But that is for a separate debate.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11249817220736089013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-15466346769290223702010-03-24T11:12:23.755+00:002010-03-24T11:12:23.755+00:00Paul,
I'm baffled...? When did I call you &quo...Paul,<br />I'm baffled...? When did I call you "a rascist?". Can you find the bit, cos I can't...And that's because I didn't call you anything at all, whether good or bad.Stan Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08877204795536395407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-61828442794968352382010-03-24T11:02:12.860+00:002010-03-24T11:02:12.860+00:00Stan, I will happily engage with your last point w...Stan, I will happily engage with your last point when it is clarified (or withdrawn) how I am a racist? It's a very tired canard that is usually issued out of desperation and an inability to debate. Take note I said I agreed with 75% of your assessment of the BNP.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11249817220736089013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-87628137070892107912010-03-23T11:46:10.315+00:002010-03-23T11:46:10.315+00:00Thanks Daniel for the kind words.
Now, let's ...Thanks Daniel for the kind words.<br /><br />Now, let's turn the tables for a second here. This constant refrain coming from the Tory/UKIP or Libertarian right, that the Left is allegedly to blame for the BNP rise (which is actually not real- the ratio press coverage vs actual BNP votes has to be one of the most distorted in history...!).<br /><br />In the 80s, at the height of Thatcherism, the British far-left experienced a massive revival. It was probably their strongest moment since the late 1940s/early1950s.<br /><br />How would you have reacted if the mainstream Labour Party or the SDP had constantly blamed the Conservatives for the rise of Militant, as well as the Trotzkyists, the Socialists and the Communists?<br /><br />Would you have said: "Oh absolutely. Sorry very much. We'll revert our policies on trade union laws, nuclear armament, City de-regulation and right-to-buy, because otherwise we run the risk of the far-left taking 20% of the national vote"?<br /><br />Or would you have just stuck two fingers up?Stan Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08877204795536395407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-9973830488941372182010-03-23T11:33:16.155+00:002010-03-23T11:33:16.155+00:00Ah well even if Stan was correct with his take on ...Ah well even if Stan was correct with his take on the BNP (I would go along with 75% of it, not 100% as they are not that important.) Who here spoke for the BNP? Also could someone quantify the claim I am a racist?Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11249817220736089013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-38126779883939178602010-03-23T11:12:08.612+00:002010-03-23T11:12:08.612+00:00I'm going back on my word here to just agree w...I'm going back on my word here to just agree with Stan Moss because that comment has it down pat.<br /><br />Racism and nationalist bigotry is as old as time, as Stan points out the bastards point at whatever ill they perceive at the time and run with it, a cloak for their fascism.<br /><br />Just wanted to back Stan up as his comment was spot on.Daniel Hoffmann-Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02531802987223516482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-36156860319091704722010-03-23T10:01:42.673+00:002010-03-23T10:01:42.673+00:00Rod Liddle used to edit the Today programme & ...Rod Liddle used to edit the Today programme & he's right-wing, doesn't that make up for La Toynbee?asquithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246701347539264295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-31838603906915994592010-03-22T23:23:24.484+00:002010-03-22T23:23:24.484+00:00What a shame this debate has slipped out of hand. ...What a shame this debate has slipped out of hand. I must say, however, that I am with Daniel H-G here and that the debate highlighted the spectacular state of paranoia that reigns supreme amongst the racist xenophobic far-right.<br /><br />Everything is a conspiracy. Everything is a deliberate, anti-white British ploy. Figures don't count and objectivity can go fuck itself. We're a country run by New Labour's civil servants and their obsession to turn Britain into a non-white country run by commies, Polly Toynbee, New Labour's councils and Peter Mandelson's lover.<br /><br />You can present all the evidence you want and repeat it ad nauseam. Newmania will go on like a broken record that it's all New Labour's fabrications. <br /><br />I won't get bogged down into this. I will just remind you of this simple truth: the BNP are thugs. They are a f a s c i s t party and always have been.<br /><br />Stop trying to make up them excuses on their behalfs. Their gruesome idelogy existed well before migration rose in the noughites. They were actively racist and xenophobic in the 90s, as well as in the 80s and the 70s no matter which specific incarnation.<br /><br />They singled out easy targets before the EU was a reality and made a living out of professional victimhood. Before the Muslims, the EU and Eastern Europeans there were the "blacks". Before then there were "the Asians" and before then "the Jews". Not to mention "the faggots". <br /><br />Those are psychofascists. Their ramblings may be incoherent, but theirs is a long, coherent history of violence and cowardice and their history of obsessive recruiting amongst football hooligans throughout the 70s and 80s and 90s is telling. Lansdowne Road 1995. More I will not say.<br /><br />They would always come up with an excuse or two to persuade you that they're not really racists, no, and that they were simply pushed into it by the powers that be.Stan Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08877204795536395407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-7360470201871046622010-03-22T22:56:58.392+00:002010-03-22T22:56:58.392+00:00So Newmania, Polly Toynbee has more of a clout tha...So Newmania, Polly Toynbee has more of a clout than the Daily Mail, The Sun, The Express, The Daily Star and the Telegraph put together? Right. Sure. Dream on.<br /><br /><br />The BBC obviously does and the fact that relatively few people buy the Guardian \Mirror and New Statesman doesnot mean they are not equally available and rather more partisan.<br /><br /><br />Dan - I see now from your insightful comments how wrong I have been.God forgive me.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-66479012446861868972010-03-22T22:55:19.033+00:002010-03-22T22:55:19.033+00:00'I see me a racist, sorry pal but I do. Libert...'I see me a racist, sorry pal but I do. Libertarian values for all apart from immigrants right?'<br /><br />Yeah sure I mean look here:<br /><br />http://amodernlibertarian.blogspot.com/2009/10/if-youre-former-serviceman-or.html<br /><br />You make an assumption without any evidence whatsoever. The difference between you and Claude is not that 'he has love to give'. It's that he can debate. You can only lie and issue insults. <br /><br />Sure 'others will mop up around here'. We know you will not engage in debate or answer any point that is made. Neither do you possess courtesy. I'll give you a tip, if you want to label someone as racist or anything else try quoting them it's only fair? Or perhaps you could find some evidence from my blog (good luck with that)? <br /><br />I mean I could make assumptions about you, with statements like 'no sovereignty has been surrendered' or 'there has been no positive discrimination'. But I understand now that you realise how foolish those statements were and when they were exposed and countered with evidence it stung you into stroppiness.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11249817220736089013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-25554172599940392992010-03-22T22:22:05.503+00:002010-03-22T22:22:05.503+00:00So Newmania, Polly Toynbee has more of a clout tha...So Newmania, Polly Toynbee has more of a clout than the Daily Mail, The Sun, The Express, The Daily Star and the Telegraph put together? Right. Sure. Dream on.<br /><br />And Portsmouth are ahead of Man Utd in the Premier League table. And Malta is bigger than Canada.<br /><br />Enough for tonight, Newmania. Make sure you have Neather's voodoo doll with you in bed. Oh and a nice cup of horlicks served in a cup that sports a "New Labour" logo. Happy dreams.claudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11498799178450479883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-32362849071530068502010-03-22T22:07:26.204+00:002010-03-22T22:07:26.204+00:00I am convinced...
You think it has nothing to do ...I am convinced...<br /><br />You think it has nothing to do with the huge increase in numbers ? You say the tabloid Press is anti immigration , more so than its readers ? I `m not sure I am sure that the BBC is a resolutely pro multiculturalism as it is pro EU. The BBC is vastly more influential. Polly Toynbee was editor of social affairs for years , how would you feel if Norman Tebbit had a few years to even the score<br />Your claim that disinformation is the key also sits oddly with the belated admission that migration watch have been right and the ONS have indeed underestimated inward migration <br />Why do you think the BBC suppressed the information that Aids was primarily being spread by back Africa heterosexual immigrants despite the risk this posed and the waste of resources that resulted ?<br />Just one example , how is that New Labour argued without serious challenge that immigration made us wealthier for years when there was never any evidence of it ands it has now been quietly dropped .<br /><br />AS you well know there is overwhelming support fo e reduction of immigration levels . On any other subject this would be acknowledged on this one you simply conclude that everyone else is much stupider than you are <br /><br />Do you think there is such a thing as England beyond a patch of land and a set of entitlements ? My impression is that the socialists left fundamentally hate the idea of a Nation at all and would prefer its idenity diluted . Thats what Neather said on R4 is that a tabloid myth ?Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-14603620985860547262010-03-22T21:49:40.147+00:002010-03-22T21:49:40.147+00:00Newmania:
Woah there cowboy, your trolling is ge...Newmania:<br /> <br />Woah there cowboy, your trolling is getting tiresome, all you've got is New motherfucking Labour being at fault for pretty much everything and that the BNP are a half-decent political party. Both those positions make you mad. You also talk about importing immigrants as if they are bits of meat. That may be your flawed English but you reek of summat awful.<br /><br />And what you class as refuting, the rest of us class as batshit crazy ramblings of an Internet wizard.<br /><br />Oh and you're a daft racist, if only we got rid of all them damn immigrants and Muslims eh?<br /><br />Claude:<br /><br />I love you too man but I'm done here arguing the toss with nutjobs with no grasp of reality or basic human rights, such is the way of BNP posts brother.<br /><br />Paul:<br /><br />Sorry, I ain't Claude, he is a patient man with lots of love to give, I just see people trot out tired old, unworkable ideas and I call it as I see it.<br /><br />I see me a racist, sorry pal but I do. Libertarian values for all apart from immigrants right?<br /><br />I can argue your points all day long, but I know for fact that you wont move from your bigoted world view and I won't move from being a kind-hearted, open -minded liberal who has a serious distaste for bigotry and narrow minded blame culture bullshit.<br /><br />So my work here is done, I'll let Claude or some other fellow mop up round these parts. I tell you this though Paul, BNP themed posts always bring the worms out the damn woodwork. You feel me?Daniel Hoffmann-Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02531802987223516482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-27111424659175156702010-03-22T21:41:24.234+00:002010-03-22T21:41:24.234+00:00"3 Housing problems are Caused by immigration..."3 Housing problems are Caused by immigration see Frank Field and N Soames report "<br /><br />Frank Field has always been on the hard right of the Labour party. He was part of a Government that hasn't built any council houses and he has the nerve to blame it on immigrants?Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-739634429667837032010-03-22T21:32:52.048+00:002010-03-22T21:32:52.048+00:00I certainly think you can criticise Islam without ...I certainly think you can criticise Islam without being racist & the accusations of "Islamophobia" thrown around can just get too much at times. I am far more for people being able to decide who & what they are rather than it being assumed that they are member of lumpen "communities" & tribal elders speak for them. I have always felt thus.<br /><br />We who are taking the side of the Malalai Joyas, Jasvinder Sangheras & Boge Gebres of this world will have limited time for pro-faith & morally relativist "arguments".<br /><br />I can't really be arsed tonight, seriously. But those who have followed my comments will know that I am very pleased to be secular & an individualist. We are entitled to criticise state multiculturalism & support integration (including things like ESOL). <br /><br />There are quite a few things in this world that you don't need to be right-wing to feel uneasy with, & we shouldn't let conservatives own any issue. You'll have to forgive me for not going on any more length now as I find this thing a bit depressing. Also I have eaten a bit much for dinner so I am not at peak performance.asquithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246701347539264295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-41490658166919763272010-03-22T21:22:26.653+00:002010-03-22T21:22:26.653+00:00Paul,
thanks for keeping a civilised tone. I said ...Paul,<br />thanks for keeping a civilised tone. I said before you're a very pleasant person to debate and disagree with. Which, especially online with all the ramblers (left right and centre) is not to be taken for granted.<br /><br />I don't think you're pro-BNP at all. I even agree with your statement that <i>"you have to understand the swamp they live in."</i> That makes a lot of sense.<br /><br />But I also think the swamp they live in was handed to them on a plate by ten years of tabloid-driven hysteria, lies, fables, gratuituous scaremongering and misinformation.<br /><br />In my opinion, the tabloid bombardment since roughly 2000 -in some cases it's openly racist- has constituted the biggest recruitment campaign for the BNP. Way more than ill-informed Harriet Harman policies or statements. Of that, personally, I am convinced.claudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11498799178450479883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-54172687050166159912010-03-22T21:07:33.861+00:002010-03-22T21:07:33.861+00:00So I'll ask you once again if I may: would you...So I'll ask you once again if I may: would you kindly tell me where you think the BNP has got it wrong?<br /><br />In numerous ways whatever else they are they are certainly socialists ( Strasserists ) protectionists and in many ways the Labour Party your parents voted for. They are also despite recent protestations a Party of racists who believe some bizarre cod science .<br />What they mostly are though is boring .It is the vast numbers fully prepared to vote for them ( See Rowntree report ) that are the point. Their appeal there is in my view founded on real complaints that deserve more than patronising supercilious assertions of greater education.<br /><br /><br />Claude they are statistics used in a characteristically New Labour way which is to adjust the perspective time scale and starting point until you get the picture you like . In this case it is utterly misleading as I argued at the time.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-87351473042006741102010-03-22T20:54:16.573+00:002010-03-22T20:54:16.573+00:00'It's as if skin colour donates right to w...'It's as if skin colour donates right to work, or human rights in general and if that you came here and are now naturalised, you do not have those rights if, God forbid, there is a recession, people should give up work and hand the jobs to white folks?'<br /><br />Only I never said such a thing. I will admit that I did not expect you to agree with my plan to defuse BNP support. The fact is that Immigrants do a lot of jobs in this country that UK residents could do. That is a fact; it is not intended to imply that no immigrants should come. <br /><br />'Because, correct me if I'm wrong, Paul (I always thought you're a reasonable chap), except that you're not saying it, but you're basically implying that the BNP have got a whole lot of grievances spot-on. Their only fault is that they're called "BNP". Were they called "DTT", they would be bang on, right?'<br /><br />I really should not respond to this as it is insulting. Read what I have said about the BNP and their policies on my blog here:<br /><br />http://amodernlibertarian.blogspot.com/2009/10/if-youre-former-serviceman-or.html<br /><br />It appears that you all seem to believe that I am some sort of BNPer. This is strange indeed. What I was suggesting in my original comment was that to understand the BNP you have to understand the swamp they live in. It was largely created by Labour. What I wrote was how the BNP have come to prominence due to policies that have left the white Working class disenfranchised.<br /><br />I do not expect you to agree with me of course. Indeed Daniel seems keen on swearing black is white. Stating that sovereignty has not been surrendered (you heard of the EU or the Lisbon treaty?) or that there is no such thing as positive discrimination. I'll be fair perhaps you call it something else, But look at Harman's equality Bill. Also look at the changes introduced with regards to 'Racial and Religious hatred'. Or even the NI Policing Act I could go on. But if we agree to disagree that is fine. <br /><br />I do respect you guys and I am slightly disappointed with the response I got but I'm sure we can all agree to put our dummies back in. Nowhere did I say that I felt Immigration was wrong or even unnecessary. I didn't even say that the BNP are right on immigration. I did say and I stick to it that mass immigration has been a causative factor in the rise of the BNP. That is a widely held opinion even by some on the soft left.<br /><br />I would welcome your own 'policies' on defusing the BNP. My own were flippant of course but were aimed directly at their core electorate. We can leave the prissy squabbles over whether Islamic terrorism is Islamic terrorism to another day if you like.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11249817220736089013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-44945815559843128592010-03-22T20:41:55.762+00:002010-03-22T20:41:55.762+00:00Newmania,
they are international statistics, and n...Newmania,<br />they are <i>international statistics</i>, and <i>not</i> New Labour's.<br /><br />You are obsessed with bloody New Labour! I bet you see the words New Labour etched on shop signs when you walk down the high street. Just forget about New Labour for five minutes, will you?<br /><br />Paul, you have a point -which I conceded during past debates and you know where I stand on the subject- only when you talk about Islamic extremism and its mpact on community relations. The Left is guilty of repeatedly downplaying it, I give you that.<br /><br />But the rest of your analysis I disagree with. <br /><br />So I'll ask you once again if I may: would you kindly tell me where you think the BNP has got it wrong?claudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11498799178450479883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-4522467750337047392010-03-22T20:39:01.559+00:002010-03-22T20:39:01.559+00:00No sovereignty has been surrendered, this is the t...No sovereignty has been surrendered, this is the talk of a loon, not a compes mentes individual.<br /><br /><br />What are you talking about what do you think Lisbon was about ? Have you been napping for twenty years Rip Van Wankle ? Wake up! For fucks sake read a paper <br /><br />Our obsession with Islam and the demonising of its followers is a problem as it borders on bigotry.<br /><br />Oh really and how many caches of arms as was discovered in my local Mosque have been found in the local Methodist Chapel. This is a ridiculous comparison unless you means the IRA and its political sympathisers which is a arguable equivalence. Are you aware of the wide support for the bombers in Islamic Communities I can give you the surveyed figures ort are those facts which you would like to ignore <br /><br />I have no tolerance for backward ideas <br /><br />Really why then arte you spouting a ill digested cocktail of 18th century rationalism and Marxism ? <br /><br /><br /><br />The idea that any nation, esp. ours does not need immigration and migration (concepts as old as time) and that all we need to do is get the lazy benefits scroungers off their arses is utter, utter mind blowing horse shit.<br /><br />Take that up with the House of Lords then who concluded otherwise , you know nothing about this do you. The Nazis were defeated not by Liberal hand wringing do gooders like Michale conchy Foot .They were defeated by a strong Nation who knew who they wereNewmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-59880498502519457442010-03-22T20:26:24.339+00:002010-03-22T20:26:24.339+00:00http://mymarilyn.blogspot.com/2009/11/immigration-...http://mymarilyn.blogspot.com/2009/11/immigration-myths-1-they-all-come-here.html<br /><br />Claude I refuted that pack of New Labour lies at the time , clearly only facts that appear to supprt your own prejudices penetrate.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-24551025539623492542010-03-22T20:26:24.340+00:002010-03-22T20:26:24.340+00:00Well I had hoped for a debate and not name calling...Well I had hoped for a debate and not name calling. I have made ample criticisms of the BNP and their policies on my blog. Now Daniel your 'points':<br /><br />1. '1. No sovereignty has been surrendered, this is the talk of a loon, not a compes mentes individual.' Please tell us therefore where 75% of UK law comes from? Is it from an elected national Parliament?<br /><br />2. 'The talking down of the UK is a complex and wide reaching phenomenon that has roots in many places and complex reasons for existence. There are no quick fixes to this and fo rme personally, clinging onto flags and lines drawn in the sand is pretty dated and daft.' Thanks for proving my point. I never suggested that flying a flag remedied anything. I said that banning a national flag by a left wing council was stupid.<br /><br />3. 'Personally, I have no time for any religion, Islam is as bad as Christianity is as bad as Judaism is as bad as...Our obsession with Islam and the demonising of its followers is a problem as it borders on bigotry.'<br /><br />Well this starts well but then the last sentence is madness. I'm presuming that you wish the UK to remain a secular democracy. Yet the only attempt to install a theocracy in the west comes from Islam. At least the only credible attempt. The Muslim Brotherhood and Hizb Ut Tahir are international movements. Also the UK government funded MCB is Islamist. Daniel those are mainstream political/religious movements. The Al Qaeda and their ilk are only different in terms of method they share the same goal, Islamic law. On the subject of terrorism you do accept that Islamic movements carried out 9/11, Bali, 7/7 and countless other attacks? They did so with reference to Islam's scriptures I think you know this. That guy Green with his 'Christian Voice' movement may be a loon as well but he is not a chip of the same block<br /> But hey lets not call Islamic terrorism Islamic terrorism! Even though the Jihadist movements do exactly that! (with names like Ansar al Sunna) I mean that would be awfully bigoted. <br /><br />'4) The old chestnut of immigration, I think this shows us up to be simple minded creatures obsessed with tiny details and missing the big picture of existence as we sell our tawdry wares.<br /><br />The idea that any nation, esp. ours does not need immigration and migration (concepts as old as time) and that all we need to do is get the lazy benefits scroungers off their arses is utter, utter mind blowing horse shit.'<br /><br />I never said we did not need Immigration. What I said was that many of the disenfranchised communities that support the BNP are on benefits. They claim these whilst Immigrants actually carry out work they could do. Both Channel Four's Dispatches and the BBC's 'White Britain' highlighted this.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11249817220736089013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17101458.post-15687587584181685312010-03-22T19:26:59.571+00:002010-03-22T19:26:59.571+00:00Newmania said:
"Gerroff the rate has quintupl...Newmania said:<br />"<i>Gerroff the rate has quintupled since 97 thats rubbish. If we went back to 97 levels we would all be fine.</i>"<br /><br />It's a shame because a few months ago I spent some time and did a <a href="http://mymarilyn.blogspot.com/2009/11/immigration-myths-1-they-all-come-here.html" rel="nofollow">whole series</a> getting together the immigration figures across the so-called advanced world since 1997. <br /><br />Statistics clearly state that Britain took as many immigrants, in some cases <b>less so</b> than many other countries such as the US, Australia, Spain or France.<br /><br />The fact that you still cling onto the same old trite belief that "they all wanna come to Britain" shows how blinkered you are. People can show you as many hard figures as they can. They're wasting their time.<br /><br />Daniel Hoffmann-Gill,<br />I love you.<br />Your answer to Paul was one of the best comments I've ever seen on any blog and I thank you for that. It gave me some hope right when I thought I'd run out.<br /> <br />Because, correct me if I'm wrong, Paul (I always thought you're a reasonable chap), except that you're not saying it, but you're basically implying that the BNP have got a whole lot of grievances spot-on. Their only fault is that they're called "BNP". Were they called "DTT", they would be bang on, right?<br /><br />So apparently, you think they're right that there's too many immigrants (that's it, we used those foreigners during good times to clean our loos and wipe our old people's arses, now that there's a recession let's dispose of'em). They're right that all those foreigners are snatching <i>our jobs</i>.<br />They're right that we don't fly the flag no more (but hey the Spice Girls did! And Morrissey too!!!) etc etc etc.<br /><br />So Paul...can you tell us ONE thing ONE where the BNP are wrong? Can you? Or is it just the name that you don't like?claudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11498799178450479883noreply@blogger.com